I'm still alive... I've just been delayed by real life which decided it needed to kick me and remind me of it's presence. Needless to say my fanfiction writing was one of the first casualties. AtO was stuck with 8035 words for more than a week now. At least I'm finally able to work on it.
Makes me wonder if I should just post the chapter up as it is without making/breaking the 10,000 word limit I'd set for myself. *looks at Ch 10 so far*... Ok, I'm definitely not done with this, still have more scenes that need to be in here. My fingers are way too slow.
I got a wonderful PM the other day- someone wanted to be my beta reader. More specifically though they wanted to see what I had so far for chapter 10. Very thoughtful I thought, so I asked them to give me a beta-reader opinion of chapter 9 as a test of sorts.
I was told about my sloppy capitalization and how it seems to be a bit better. Ok, good you noticed that and what else?
The person didn't seem to have any other comments about chapter 9. Nothing about possible plot holes, nothing about misuse of certain words, nothing about lack of descriptions.
So I guess I wanted to know, am I expecting too much from a possible beta-reader? If I ever take a beta-reader for my work I expect them to look at my work and tell me what's wrong- whether it's plot, grammar, or just my writing. I'd like to see why I shouldn't write a certain way so that I can learn and change myself.
In a way, I'm glad that some of reviewers take the time to explain certain things to me.
What about you guys? What do you look for in a beta-reader? And if you have one, are they helpful and have you stuck with them for the entirety of your story?
And how do you work with them? Do you make them edit it and then post it up as soon as they return the edited version to you? Or do they tell you what they've done and why they've changed something and then you rewrite certain parts based on their help and upload the next chapter?
Polar
P.S. Nothing to recommend this time because I haven't been able to do any reading at all. *sadness*
P.P.S. As for the poll on my profile page- there's no hidden meaning to it. I just want to see who people saw Harry possibly related to. Definitely not going to write a story for the highest voted choice.
I never had a beta reader before, but I was one once. Mostly I focused on grammar, word use, and characterization. It's like writing a review but being more nitpicky with the details. I would reword some parts (but highlighted so the author could see what I've changed and let him/her decide if he/she would accept it), and ask questions on certain decisions. Regarding plot holes, mostly I look out for when an author contradicts what he/she said in a previous chapter. I guess it really does kind of depends on what the author wants. Some just wants someone to check over their grammar, some would share their outline of a story (making it easier to comment on plot), etc. The author I worked with seems satisfied with what I did (I worked with her throughout the entirety of one multi-chapter fic). She'll look over my edits, defend her decisions if she disagreed with me, or make the changes and send the new copy for me to check over. So yeah. If you're looking for a beta reader I think it would be helpful to list your expectations and just make sure you're both on the same page. There's the issue with time too - better make it clear from the very start when you expect them to get back to you with edits. Especially if you plan to work more than one beta.
ReplyDeleteSorry for rambling - I just read your fic recently (and loved it) so I decided to poke around here to see what else you've got. It's interesting to see the result of your poll. Honestly, I never thought Naruto and Harry being related would be so..so...*plausible* but your fic changed my mind! My head-canon crossover relative for Harry was Sasuke (due to reading Connections by Sophie3) but now I'm torn. ^^
Good luck with the word count! Though I'm itching for an update I definitely have no complaints with your chapter length.
I WAS THE ONE TO GET DUCHESSA HOOKED! *does the wave* *cough* Sorry, I'm high on sugar.
ReplyDeleteI've worked as a beta as well, for Wingwyrm's Mangekyo Sharingan (except the first chapter) and Relatively Civilian, as well as all of wife-chan's stories... and I'm sure you remember my butting into your story to give you some heads up about a few things... which you said you didn't mind :)
I agree with Duchessa about listing the expectations you have for a beta reader, and what would make the beta inadequate for you.
I'd check over everything; spelling, grammar, plot related holes or things that I felt should be added or removed. Also the overuse of certain words <-- I'm a sickler for that one.
Like Duchessa, I'd change the words and highlight the change, and the author could decide whether they agreed with it or not.
As a beta, I try to be very frank with obvious faults and very polite concerning things I don't agree with. Still, it's up to the author to decide whether to make the change - I'm just the little guy looking over your shoulder, the author is the one to drive the story.
There are some things I expect from an author though, when I beta:
Knowledge of basic grammar, spelling and sentence structure. I wouldn't beta for someone who writes liKE a fiVve yea olld.
A time frame for when the beta should be completed, taking in to account; school days, IRL delays of other kinds and the length of the chapter. Doing 10000 words in a day - especially when you're a fanfiction author yourself, who also does beta work for other people - would leech any kind of satisfaction/fun out of the work.
Tell me what you don't want me to comment on.
Talk to me. Allow me to get a feel of what you want to accomplish with the story.
Look over the chapter when I've betaed, to make sure there is nothing I've missed - and point it out to me. I'm only human, after all.
Don't spoil the whole story for me. I expect the author to be able to keep track of the basic outline of the plot, because while I am a beta, I'm also a reader enjoying the story! If there is something - a future character interaction or event - you want a second opinion on, then of course I'd be amendable, but I don't want to know how the whole story is going to end.
...Now I kind of want to beta for you. Strange, that wasn't my intention when I first sat down to comment.
Anyway, sorry RL is kicking your ass, it happens to all of us everr now and again D: I suppose I shouldn't be expecting any updates aug. 15, eh?
Hope you'll be getting more free time in the near future!
@duchessa- It's good to know that other people beta the same way I do. I go a bit crazy with highlighting things I've changed and why I've changed it. Sometimes I wonder if I'm channeling my old english teacher- which is a scary thought.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm glad you stopped by. Always good to meet people. I totally agree about plausible relations and stuff. For instance, before Orodruin's story I would have never thought of Harry and Kakashi as relatives.
@romantiscue- I tried to see if i could get the chapter done by the 15th- didn't even come on the internet in an attempt to focus on writing- alas, I'm not the fastest writer around. It's like my fingers can't really keep up with the scenes in my head. It's like trying to keep water in your hands- once you lose it, it's gone.
I'm really hoping to get done with this chapter soon- if I stare at it too long I'll probably never get it online.
And woah- I didn't know you were beta-ing that many stories- especially stories that I'm reading/already read. It's like everyone is connected- which is kinda awesome.
Ah, it's totally fine. I don't mean to nag you really, but the moment school started, I started living chapter-to-chapter with my handful of favorite fanfiction. It's so I'll survive all the homework we're bound to be getting, now that we're in our third year... hope I didn't jinx it now. I thought we might get some leniency the first week, but oh no, starting right away with whipping us into shape.
ReplyDeleteI'll focus on the positive side of you not posting the chapter yet; it means you have lots of inspiration, even if your fingers can't quite keep up with it! And that's comforting *nerdy*
I had the problem with my first fic. Everything had to be perfect, or I couldn't post it. Problem was, of course, that thre is no such thing as total perfection in writing - so I'd end up editing stuff and changing things and not being very happy with the end result anyway. And then posting it. Took me some time to learn that it didn't have to be perfectly written to be a good chapter *shrugs*
Yeah, I didn't realize I was betaing that many stories until I spelled it all out here. I never really considered it before, for some reason. Hm. Now I feel a little proud of myself XD
Anyway, I'll come bug you again (you don't mind me popping up and bleating things at you here, do you? >.<) and cross my fingers for an update sometime at the end of this week ;)
I can't review anymore so I'll write here. I Re-re-re-re-read the last chapter and at one point, Harry thinks "Socks are sentimental?" And every time I read that, I do think it's a pity he doesn't say it aloud.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Uchiha are very credible relatives for Harry (although Connections is a great fic) : there is the physical resemblance, but the personalities are so different it's not really convincing. Harry's not half as broody, dark, ambitious or dissimulative as the Uchiha. I say that even if I know Itachi's "good" and even if I still like Sasuke.
Enjoy writing, that's the best you can do
^
ReplyDeleteI don't quite agree with your reasoning here, Malice2. Personality and behavior aren't genetic traits; family members can be as different as complete strangers even if they look very similar. I just have to look at my sister to know that.
That said, I'm really enjoying Naruto's and Harry's respective personalities and Harry's sudden big brother role. It makes their interactions very... CUTE! I'm sorry, I know that's a bit fangirly, but it really is the truth XD
I know, I was thinking my arguments were not complete as I wrote them, but was far too lazy to develop them fully :-) I myself am very very different from my sister.
ReplyDeleteFamily can be different, Obito being the proof of it. And I'm not averse to the idea of Harry being an Uchiha, which is why I like the story Connections a lot. What I meant is that the Uchiha don't strike me as being the most logical relatives, even though a lot of fic writers make them family. It IS possible. But unless it's well written, it doesn't convince me much cause I dont see many reasons to connect them. There's no physical resemblance with Naruto, and Naruto's far less thoughtful than Harry, but I'm... more convinced by them being a family, because they seem to share the way they care about people. That's a personal view of course ;-)
Let's be fangirly for once: Harry and Naruto ARE cute. Even though I guess Naruto'll have to get loud and brash at some point :-)
I hope I was clear enough. it's far too late in the night to be arguing in a foreign language lol
to be fair, their mothers DO look alike
ReplyDeleteI think it's what you're in the mood for, probably. Sasuke/Harry family is more tense and facepalm-y, while Naruto and Harry are more complimentary and *kind*, and it kind of feels like they need each other... or more like Naruto needs Harry... in both fics it feels like Harry is more needed by the other person than the other way around (though that's not to say Harry doesn't need them in return.)
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I kind of understood even as I answered that it couldn't possibly be your full motivation for what you wrote; but like you, I wasn't up to arguing late in the night in a foreign language XD
And like Anon says, their mothers look scarily alike.
(Sorry for getting all chatty here, Polar!)
What is your mother tongue? (sorry if I get out of Naruto/HP topic, Polar). I'm French...
ReplyDeleteAnd Anonymous, you're right, I hadn't really paid attention to that.
You know, I found Hatake Harry even less convincing in theory (once again, why not but I wouldn't have thought of it), but Orodruin's so great I got along with it.
Polar, I love Konoha's White Streak, thanks for pointing it to us. About your story: shouldn't Harry try to contact Ron and Hermione soon, even if it's risky? They must be dead worried by now... Though of course Harry has other things to think about...
I think the Uchiha family is so big and full of different types of characters...so if you make them Harry's relatives, there's a bit of diversity for what could happen to Harry. There's caring Uchihas and then there are the uncaring Uchihas.
ReplyDeleteAnd Sasuke- well with current manga canon- I don't like him but it'd interesting to see how Harry would react if he found out he was related to Sasuke at this time in Naruto. Would Harry smack Sasuke for being an idiot and being so obviously manipulated? Or will he join Sasuke since he's related.
When you make Harry a relative of some ninja, I think there's always going to be a sense of- what similarities do they have?, Do they act alike? Do they have similar tastes in things?
I think it's all part of the question of -what makes people family?
@Malice- good to know you liked "Konoha's White Streak"- it looks like it's going to be an interesting story.
I wanted to make the 'Socks are sentimental?' an actual line that Harry blurts out. But in the end I decided to make Harry seem a bit more in control of himself there. I wanted to make him competant especially since he has to depend on himself to survive there.
@romantiscue- so school's already beating you into shape? Ouch!
Most times I get delayed becasue I feel like some parts have to be shifted from one part of the chapter to another. It's like an instinct that tells me that the chapter isn't quite done yet. It's very annoying! But I can't fault it- it has helped me out so far.
@Malice2: I'm Swedish! :)
ReplyDeleteI'm also a bit in love with Konoha's White Streak. It's a rather lively story, and pretty original to boot. Can't wait to see how Jiraiya will react!
@Polar: Yeah. First day of school, we got homework! XD
Ah, so you end up writing less consecutively than you were intending? Well, nothing wrong with that. I actually kind of like writing more all over the place whenever I get stuck, though I rarely do it.
Anyway! Wordcount? (didn't expect that question, did you? XDDD)